19 Mar 2008, 11:14am
Federal forest policy Saving Forests
by admin

What Is “Forest Renewal”?

In the Notice issued by the Rogue River-Siskiyou National Forest regarding amending that Forests’ Land and Resource Management Plans “to allow for the full range of Appropriate Management Response strategies for the management of wildland fires” [here], the RR-SNF Forest Supervisor Scott Conroy is quoted as saying:

“Land managers throughout the West have learned over the last forty years that there are ecological benefits of having fire on the landscape as it can provide for a renewal of the Forest. It is a natural cycle of life in a forest,” said Conroy.

To reiterate, Conroy said the ecological benefit of forest fires is “forest renewal.” What then is “forest renewal”? What is he talking about?

The old purpose (old as in yesterday) of forest management on the RR-SNF was to protect old-growth forests, or in the parlance of the USFS, “late successional stands.” No cutting, no thinning, no roads, no human impacts of any kind are allowed currently, because the ancient forests are to be preserved.

But now the RR-SNF proposes to “renew” those forests by burning them down. To me that means killing all the old-growth trees, indeed killing all the live trees, and replacing them with new seedlings and/or germinants, or whatever sprouts back after the catastrophic, stand-replacing fire.

What else can “forest renewal” mean?

I ask you: do you know what “forest renewal” means? Do you have some definition of it? Please feel free to comment on this post and explain it to me.

I am quite familiar with the laws and regulations governing the USFS and their management activities. Nowhere that I know of is “forest renewal” mandated, or for that matter, even mentioned. I could be wrong, however.

Is “forest renewal” one of the tasks the U.S. Congress has assigned to the USFS? In what law or regulation is that directive found? How is “forest renewal” defined in that directive, if it exists?

Another possibility is that Conroy is making it up, that no directive for “forest renewal” exists. If so he is operating outside the law. That would imply some sort of extra-legal activity. One could even construe that behavior as criminal, in that potential case.

But before I call for a Justice Department investigation of the RR-SNF Forest Supervisor for high crimes and misdemeanors, it behooves me to determine just what “forest renewal” means and if it is a real thing or not. It appears to be forest murder and catastrophic destruction of living trees, particularly protected old-growth stands. But that might not be the case.

Does anyone reading this have any legal knowledge or expertise regarding “forest renewal”? It is legal? Is Conroy operating within the law, or committing a horrendous crime?

I would appreciate your sharing any citations or legal verbiage indicating one way or the other. Thank you.

19 Mar 2008, 8:22pm
by Mike

Where is the outrage!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scott Conroy and the USFS wish to wipe the slate clean and start over. They wish to “renew” ancient forests by incinerating them.

Words fail me.

Where are the radicals in Eugene? Where are the ancient forest devotees? Where are the County Commissioners? Where are the state legislatures? Where are all our elected representatives? We set aside our economy to “save the old-growth.” Now the USFS proposes to refresh the screen, wipe the hard drive, by incinerating the LSR’s! Is that what you want?

Where is the College of Forestry? Those harpies of destruction call for more EARLY SUCCESSIONAL TICKBRUSH where now stand heritage forests.

Where is Earth First! Cascadia Rising! The Klamath-Siskiyou Alliance!

Where is the SIERRA CLUB?

Where is the SAF?

Where is NAFSR?

Where is there anyone out there who understands forests and will rise with us to STOP THE DESTRUCTION?

Where are the people? Are they so dense as to be blind to the true nature of the BULLSHIT raining down?

God damn it!

GOD DAMN IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

19 Mar 2008, 8:33pm
by Mike

How forking plain do I have to make it?

The USFS is incinerating America’s priceless heritage forests, on purpose, illegally, out of pure, mindless, hatred for forests.

They did the Kaibab. They did the Payette. They did the Deschutes. They did every forest in Montana and Idaho. They did the Okanogan-Wenatchee. They are doing every forest in America.

It’s not the loggers; it’s the FIRE COMMUNITY. It’s the BINGO’s. It’s the U.S. CONGRESS. It’s the ECO-NAZIS.

For what? For NOTHING! For pure destructiveness! Out of pure hatred for YOU!


YOU are their targets. YOUR homes, YOUR forests, YOUR watersheds, YOUR landscapes, YOUR lives.


19 Mar 2008, 8:50pm
by Mike

You want your forests renewed??????

Well then, let’s slick them off first. Rape and scrape. Let’s clearcut every old-growth tree in America and send it the peeler mill. Why not? The US GOVERNMENT is planning to burn them all down, has been burning them all to death! We could at least get some utility out of them.

We could reduce the smoke exhaust from the current plague of catastrophic megafires. A trillion dollars worth of timber was set aside for spotted owls alone. We could recover some of that value, pay off the National Debt, or at least a good portion of it. The way it stands now the DUMBASS GOVERNMENT is incinerating them all at YOUR expense! And the forking spotted owl is going extinct behind it.

Or, here’s a thought, we could save them, or at least save what’s left of our priceless heritage forests. We could save them by tending them. We could save the wildlife, save the habitat, save the streams and rivers, save the beauty, save our heritage, save our forests and landscapes and HOMES from holocaust.

But to do that you need to stand up now!!!

I know, I know. Nobody is listening. Nobody reads this website, and if they do, they just don’t get it. A thousand posts, two and half years, and I am still talking to myself.

To be sure, there are a dozen or so stalwarts who have hung in there with me. Bless you. It is certainly not your fault. We have given it our all. We could not have done more.

But gosh golly mother jumpers, I do not know what else to do.

19 Mar 2008, 9:33pm
by bear bait

Mike: What the hell do you expect from a society that now denies boys their due in the world. Boys can’t be boys now. Act like a boy, and they drug you. In the workaday world, act like a boy and they fire you. Unless you are a girl, then you get promoted.

So if boys can’t be boys but girls can, you have to know that reason went out the window with the bathwater long ago. The Piss Fir Williettes and Willies are no more than a social engineering experiment, ongoing, and any benefit a resource might gain in that endeavor is happenstance. To conjure the idea that by not fighting fire because only stupid Euro-males would do something like that, you have to also conjure the emotion that you are doing good. In reality, the people who staff the USFS no longer can tell a bowl of sour goose shit from a good grade of oatmeal. No experience. They now have to invent their everyday activities. Nothing about managing for a multiple species, multi seral stage, fire cleansed forest in perpetuity crosses their desks. What crosses their desks are orders not to fight fire because we don’t have the freaking money. We are broke. The USFS has not produced enough income to wad a shotgun for twenty years. That green goose laying those logging eggs quit laying, and the gilt wore off the lily. They are a welfare agency. They never were cut out to be a welfare agency, and there is no institutional memory of how to be a welfare agency, as is there no institutional memory left on how to support their jobs and the local community with resource management and sales. Gone. Lost. Misplaced. Illegal now. Up the creek. F—-d, fouled and fly blowed. Mammaries up. Hog tied and left for dead. Up to their collective ass in lawyers and auditors, neither knowing how to make anything better, ever, in their whole careers, private lives, in the community.

If it were up to me, I would take them firefighting by gunpoint. I would be the militia defending my country from conflagration. But that is never going to be. They now have more armed cops than timber staff. USFS is mostly a police agency now. The guardians of the forest, keeping them safe from people. Except, of course, the chosen few who really understand what a forest is, and therefore have decided to burn them all because that is what a forest is, after all, the regrowth from a prior series of fires. Haven’t there been books written about this? Burning books? Get rid of all the knowledge, the old knowledge. Farenheit something or another?

Mike, it is insane. But not just now. It has been insane for a long time. The only hope is that the 9th Circuit has to review its legal decisions over a period of time, because they have made so much law by fiat, by court order, that professional managers, the people who were educated to know about forests, rivers, fish, have been marginalized in the court’s by prior court decision, precedence, to the point only the court can now make a decision. So one 9th Circuit Judge has filed for some sort of review. That he happens to be Sen. Gordon Smith’s brother makes it kinda dicey, I suppose, in a political sense, but the basic premise is still valid in my mind. And, if they review, and don’t change anything, then they can have the whole son of a bitch, lock, stock, and empty barrels.

You might conclude at that point you have lost all freedoms in this country. You could be correct. I wonder if a person who is childless, by intent or lost capability due to sexual persuasion, has standing to make policy that has to consider a generational succession? The urban DINKS (double incomes, no kids) think they are earth friendly. In reality, they are agents of change in that the end of their DNA means that they will be replaced by someone’s child of a religion or political bent who will just outbreed the liberals over time. This upcoming election should be a slam dunk for Democrats except they are missing about 85 million like minded thinkers by the results of Row or Wade. Hard to be a political Shaker. Your movement dies of old age if you can’t recruit.

So, Mike, it gets kind of boring hearing the burners talk of natural fire, and their most vigorous support comes from people who want to make me ride a bicycle so as not to put carbon in the air… like do you really think I am that dumb? Really think that? You either fight fires or quit driving the Prius, dumbass, because you are at cross purposes and that should be a capital offense. If you want to let the forests burn, then your vegan diet is a joke because you are burning your food supply, Stupid. And if I offend you, any of you, so be it. At least you have to think why. Do enough of that thinking stuff, and you won’t quite hate me as much.

19 Mar 2008, 11:25pm
by Mike

It’s pathetic. Political leaders with insatiable appetites are paying $5000 an hour for strange sex, blowing their whole careers, drowning in the Trough That Made Them Rich. Get to the top and jump off the cliff. Make sure you take the whole of the country with you.

The children are arming themselves and who can blame them? They sense their parents have sold them to sex merchants, from priests to Presidents, and don’t forget Gov Neil Child Molester.

And the forests burn, the water is fouled, the air polluted, the wildlife dead. Now the Officials manage for wolf-dogs, pitbull crosses stalking scorched earth and school yards. Save the cute and fuzzy kill-for-sport pit-wolves.

The cowed masses have learned to value hamsters over their own children. Urban trans-species kangaroos run this country today, while the peasants huddle in the dark waiting for Armageddon, wishing for it, hoping that God has finally had enough and flushes the whole Failed Experiment down the drain.

And the forests burn. Stark raving lunatics running for Office pontificate on the impending Doom of a warm summer day. We must save the plague rats, the ticks, the leaches. They have Rights, you know.

You don’t. You lost them to the Acid-Nazis. You were too controlling. You tried to make your children eat their vegetables. Now they are gunning for you.

And the forests burn, in raging megafires that are indiscriminate in their victims. Even the very rich get burned. Fire knows no class.

The meek will inherit the earth, but it will be a burned out wasteland.

20 Mar 2008, 2:12am
by Joe B.

if I may quote again from “In the Face of Evil”


The beast always hated the same things
A free press
Intellectual inquiry
Artistic expression
Anything that elevated or empowered the individual
Anyone who called out the beast were vilified
And considered reactionary, paranoid, warmongers

I know this may sound strange, but none of this has anything at all to do with the forests, the environment, the ice caps, what’s best for you.

The beast has always played on your fears, taken those fears and reshaped you, programmed you, made you into a part of the collective.

This isn’t about the science. Science is a red herring. This is a political war, where one side has been on the offensive forever, while the other side sits and waits and hopes the wolves will pass by the door.

Why at America’s greatest victories of the 20th Century did we blink? We blinked after the trenches and out of those ashes came Hitler. We blinked after capturing the Eagle’s Nest and Nagasaki and we then faced the old yet new threat of the Soviets. We blinked again when the wall came down and now face a dual threat of Islamo-fascism and Global Warming, and we have continued to blink in the face of the state powered solutions that come with GW and the environmental movement.

We falsely believe that they can be defeated with better science, when in fact what they call science is nothing more than a red herring designed to confound us, put us into long term arguments where we can be marginalized as deniers or bought and paid for by the “evil” corporations.

The beauty of their strategy is that in fact some of their best foot soldiers have no clue what it is they are truly doing, just as Hitler’s army had no real clue, just as the 15-year old Jihadist knows not what he does or she does, just as the Soviets believed we were all a bunch of gun happy racist cowboys itching for a fight.

20 Mar 2008, 2:28am
by Joe B.

Lenin said it didn’t matter if three quarters of the world’s population died, so long as the remaining 25 percent were communist.

Lenin was not alone, nor did his death end his movement.

Pressures brought to bear drive up fear within the individual, and a person in fear is a person who can be manipulated.

Until you realize this, and take a look at the actual model in play here, you will never come to understand what on the surface appears to be madness. The frustration alone of trying to come to grips with the skirmishes and battles will confound you until your very end, unless you view it for what it truly is. It has absolutely nothing at all to do with what you see in acreage burned, homes destroyed, lives lost and lifestyles changed forever.

The individual is not important to the collective, nothing is, save for power, “power as a means unto itself.”

Until you realize the political war being waged in every facet of your life amongst a vast majority of players who have no understanding at all of what it is they are doing, then you will never come to understand what all of this is about.

There is no tinfoil on my head, there is only clarity of the thought that they have been at this nonstop since a time no one can rightfully pinpoint and they will never stop.

The conflict arises because they deny the human spirit and its natural yearning to be free and in order to quell that spirit they must be on the offensive always, in every arena.

20 Mar 2008, 2:33am
by Joe B.

Because the Collective knows it can break off an individual here or there, turn them, and build from there. The individuals don’t know what the Collective is up to, nor will they ever know. The power does not reveal its power to those it has rendered powerless, it simply turns them against other individuals and creates a faux power the powerless come to enjoy. The Beast knows no boundaries.

20 Mar 2008, 6:44am
by Backcut

Where’s an eco-lawyer when ya need one?!? Couldn’t we sue [the bastards], citing the Endangered Species Act, amongst others, as evidence that the forests are being (maybe criminally) mismanaged? I hear there’s an outfit out of Sacramento that takes on environmental law when it drifts away from reality. Something like “Pacific Lega Foundation” or something like that? I would think that any eco-lawyer worth his salt who is willing to jump sides for money would win this case in a slamdunk (and get his fees all paid for by the gubmint).

20 Mar 2008, 9:20am
by Mike

Yes to all the above, and thank you all for your insight and support. We shall Fight the Beast. Got nothing better to do.

20 Mar 2008, 10:11am
by Mike

I might add, this is why SOS Forests is the BEST blog in the Blogosphere. We have it all: the forest crisis, the global warming hoax, the wilderness hoax, the Collapse of Reason, the enslavement of the masses, Real Politik, the Battle against the Beast.

You folks make it the best. You are fearless. Thank you.

20 Mar 2008, 12:03pm
by Joe B.

For anyone struggling as to what the Beast is, it is properly defined as Marxism, Bolshevism, communism, fascism.

Marxism etc. has taken a violent turn since Minsk 1898. The once broad battle of control against liberty coalesced into powerful and evil political movements that we have been fighting in various forms since World War I. We spent an unfortunate time in Russia where two forces of 5,000 (American North Russia Expeditionary Force) sent to Archangel and 8,000 (American Expeditionary Force Siberia) sent to Vladivostok along with 50,000 Czechs, various contingents of Poles, British, French, Serbs, 70,000 Japanese, Greeks, Italians, Romanians and Canadians were unsuccessful in aiding the White Russians and Cossacks in their attempt to stop the Bolshevik forces who we came to know as the Soviets: the communists.

A terribly punitive treaty inflicted on the Germans led to the rise of Hitler and the National Socialist Party of Germany, the Nazis. Mussolini brought fascism to Italy, Tojo continued Japan’s militaristic society that promoted anti-freedom initiatives and eugenics, and we were forced by their attacks to fight these apparently new threats. Had it not been for power as a means to itself, the Russians would have fought alongside the Germans in WWII, but a problem in the Axis arose in June 1941. Hitler beat Stalin in betraying their alliance, though Stalin was planning to attack Hitler anyway.

We formed a shaky agreement with the progenitors of the Beast in order to defeat the particularly nasty manifestation of Hitler, Mussolini, and Tojo, yet it took an attack upon the U.S. Navy at Pearl Harbor before we fully jumped into the fray.

At the defeat of Hitler and Japan (Tojo had resigned at the fall of Saipan), we knew the remaining threat existed in Stalin’s Russia, but we were war weary.

Then we entered into a long protracted Cold War against the Beast (communism) that was quite hot when you come to think about it.

When we finally defeated those progenitors of the Beast and the Berlin Wall came down, we were left thinking falsely that we had won. But the Beast had infiltrated the globe, overtly turning China, Cuba, North Korea, Vietnam, and numerous other countries. They somewhat overtly turned Latin America into a killing field for Marxists and Leftists. Most covertly, the Beast infiltrated this country coalescing into the anti-nuclear movement and anti-war movement, and co-opting the environmental movement when the Beast learned that environmental laws were a powerful way to destroy the power that lies inside the individual.

It is no coincidence that the fall of communist Russia coincides almost perfectly with the rise of acceptance of what should have been regarded as junk science in the Global Warming movement.

Fears and real betrayals led to the rise of the Mujahadeen from American ally to American enemy. The Mujahadeen that had used American support to turn the Russians out of Afghanstan had some of its factions ally itself with a fake religious faction designed to create the global caliphate to further oppress anyone or anything that did not submit to it.

We largely ignored this threat and the Taliban came to control in Afghanistan, a trusted ally in our war against the Russians. Massoud, the Lion of Panjshir, was forced to fight his own rebellion against the Taliban. He was assassinated two days before America woke up to the sight of the World Trade Center towers crumbling.

We once again took to fighting the Beast head on. However, the Beast within this country continues unabated, desiring the necessary changes in law and policy to effectively enslave the country that once stood tall against oppression.

Very few know the mechanisms of the Beast. Very few understand that to the Beast, the videotaped beheading of an individual or the passive allowance of the destruction of an entire forest means nothing to an entity that has no regard for anything but power itself. Not even the agents of the Beast are completely aware of what the end goal is that they seek by their actions. That it is why it is so pervasive. That is why we will fight it forever. There are no safe havens, because as long as there is religion (that has been co-opted by the Beast), a free press (who has been greatly co-opted by the Beast) intellectual inquiry (that has largely been co-opted by the Beast), artistic expression (that has also largely been co-opted by the Beast), and anything that elevates or empowers the individual, the Beast will be at war with those ideals.

And anyone who calls out the Beast for what it is will be vilified and labeled reactionary, paranoid warmongers.

Therefore, the only recourse for liberty is to put in place leaders who unequivocally understand this threat and deny it at every turn.

I haven’t seen anyone since Reagan who had any understanding of the threat, and even Reagan failed to truly comprehend the complete nature of the Beast that seeks to enslave or destroy us all.

It is not about saving the trees, the mythical wilderness, or the ice caps. It is about wresting control over and breaking the human spirit. That is why a plague rat has more rights than a family that lives within 30 miles of a National Forest.

The model of the Beast is the only model for which the madness can make any sense, and that is the only way to explain it in terms that those who are against it can come to understand the methods of the madness.

I don’t hate the vast majority of the people whom I would not agree with, because I know it is out of their own ignorance that they make the decisions of chaos. I do hate the overt killers, arsonists, bombers, and the truly committed soldiers of the Beast, because they declared war on you and me. They must be defeated in every battle, intellectually, artistically, in the pulpit, on the battlefields, in the statehouses, in the Congress, and in the bureaucracies.

And the only way to defeat them is to convince the masses that liberty is the better choice. Liberty must do something that only liberty can in and of itself create: it must overcome people’s fears that are manipulated to coalesce power in the hands of the wrong people who will destroy the weak after making the pledge, showing the turn. But the prestige, well now, that’s the illusion of disillusion, isn’t it?

20 Mar 2008, 2:56pm
by quincy

Funny, but if you replace “Collective” with “Corporations” in several of the above entries from earlier today, they read the same way!

I wonder if somenone could fill me in, though, on what a BINGO is? I’m new to this blog-reading.

20 Mar 2008, 3:42pm
by Mike

Ah, quincy, I don’t think so. Communist totalitarianism is not the same thing as corporate capitalism. However, there are plenty of corporations that profit from and support collectivist movements, so you may have a point.

For instance, BINGO’s are Big International Non-Governmental Organizations, and many of them are incorporated. Examples include the Nature Conservancy, the World Wildlife Federation, the Humane Society of the United States, the Sierra Club, etc.

Recommended reading:



24 Mar 2008, 10:18am
by pril

quincy may eschew the corporations in favor of the collective, but in either case, the individual stops mattering.



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