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	<title>Comments for SOS Forests</title>
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	<link>http://westinstenv.org/sosf</link>
	<description>Western Institute for Study of the Environment Commentary</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 17 May 2012 10:30:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>Comment on The Big Lie About Fire Retardant by bear bait</title>
		<link>http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2012/04/18/the-big-lie-about-fire-retardant/#comment-8792</link>
		<dc:creator>bear bait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Apr 2012 15:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westinstenv.org/sosf/?p=3179#comment-8792</guid>
		<description>Fire retardant a mostly liquid source of phosphorous,  a mineral that is known to quickly bind itself to soil particles,  and be tightly bound by electron exchange to the point where maybe less than one ppm of P is available to plants, even where the soil might contain as much as 300 ppm.  

Or so my soil analysis tells me. At the blueberry farm we are currently using fulvic acid and some humic products to encourage release of otherwise unavailable P and N in the soil as part of our fertilizer program.  

The only way a chemical can kill fish is to either poison them by interfering with their body chemistry,  or to remove the oxygen from the water,  and thus suffocate them.  Too much N or P would just grow more plants, except the dosage from fire retardant is too little to have any effect, and the fact that the water is running off to the ocean as fast as gravity and resistance will allow -- disbursing the retardant pretty quickly.  

A fire, however,  will change the whole chemistry and erosion budget of the watershed. Not only do you lose physical character to the stream profile by erosion and loss of coarse woody debris, which again and again looses a load of retained sediments down the stream in runoff events,  but it changes all the pool-riffle relationships. Holding pools get filled as do stair-stepped waterways that allow fish to "ladder" their way up small tributaries. Those are lost and the stream becomes a sluice way, which does inhibit or prevent fish from upstream access.  

The negatives of fire on the landscape are myriad, and  if the area was "special" enough to be designated as protected habitat, how does fire improve that?  It does not, not in the short term.  Habitats are lost, diversity is lost, and species are lost. 

Fire is benign when controlled by season and ignition, when it creeps along the ground and stays out of the crowns.  Holocaust fire, igniting the canopy with aerial firebombing, is just Hiroshima without the high levels of radiation -- albeit radiation levels do increase as mineral soils are exposed to the elements, having lost the protection of the duff and the organic fines in the top 3 to 18 inches of mostly mineral soil during the fire, and more afterwards due to erosion. 

The USFS, prompted by the ENGO's and Judge Molloy, have banned fire retardant and adopted canopy firebombing.  How does that make sense?
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fire retardant a mostly liquid source of phosphorous,  a mineral that is known to quickly bind itself to soil particles,  and be tightly bound by electron exchange to the point where maybe less than one ppm of P is available to plants, even where the soil might contain as much as 300 ppm.  </p>
<p>Or so my soil analysis tells me. At the blueberry farm we are currently using fulvic acid and some humic products to encourage release of otherwise unavailable P and N in the soil as part of our fertilizer program.  </p>
<p>The only way a chemical can kill fish is to either poison them by interfering with their body chemistry,  or to remove the oxygen from the water,  and thus suffocate them.  Too much N or P would just grow more plants, except the dosage from fire retardant is too little to have any effect, and the fact that the water is running off to the ocean as fast as gravity and resistance will allow &#8212; disbursing the retardant pretty quickly.  </p>
<p>A fire, however,  will change the whole chemistry and erosion budget of the watershed. Not only do you lose physical character to the stream profile by erosion and loss of coarse woody debris, which again and again looses a load of retained sediments down the stream in runoff events,  but it changes all the pool-riffle relationships. Holding pools get filled as do stair-stepped waterways that allow fish to &#8220;ladder&#8221; their way up small tributaries. Those are lost and the stream becomes a sluice way, which does inhibit or prevent fish from upstream access.  </p>
<p>The negatives of fire on the landscape are myriad, and  if the area was &#8220;special&#8221; enough to be designated as protected habitat, how does fire improve that?  It does not, not in the short term.  Habitats are lost, diversity is lost, and species are lost. </p>
<p>Fire is benign when controlled by season and ignition, when it creeps along the ground and stays out of the crowns.  Holocaust fire, igniting the canopy with aerial firebombing, is just Hiroshima without the high levels of radiation &#8212; albeit radiation levels do increase as mineral soils are exposed to the elements, having lost the protection of the duff and the organic fines in the top 3 to 18 inches of mostly mineral soil during the fire, and more afterwards due to erosion. </p>
<p>The USFS, prompted by the ENGO&#8217;s and Judge Molloy, have banned fire retardant and adopted canopy firebombing.  How does that make sense?</p>
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		<title>Comment on USFS Replaces Fire Retardant With Napalm by Barbara W.</title>
		<link>http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2012/04/03/usfs-replaces-fire-retardant-with-napalm/#comment-8779</link>
		<dc:creator>Barbara W.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Apr 2012 01:16:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westinstenv.org/sosf/?p=3167#comment-8779</guid>
		<description>At first reading, I thought this article was a satire, but no:  our Forest "Service seems hell-bent in its efforts to destroy every living tree.  Each year in WY when the FS starts "controlled burns" and they inevitably evolve into uncontrolled burns, they place signs along the highway which read WILDLAND FIRE USE and urge the public not to report the blaze they've started.  They have systematically incinerated many of the high white bark pine areas they advertise they are trying to protect.  A great many of the pristine areas in the Gros Ventres, Wyoming and Wind River ranges have been actively destroyed by the FS.  I'm beginning to think their slogan must be "The Only Good Tree is a Dead Tree."

&lt;strong&gt;Reply:&lt;/strong&gt; The FS's slogan is (no satire) "Reintroduce Fire".  They do so aggressively and without regard for the law (i.e. criminally).  The US Forest Service has become a bellicose occupation army inflicting disaster across the West.  It is time (past time) to zero out that agency and give the land back to the residents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At first reading, I thought this article was a satire, but no:  our Forest &#8220;Service seems hell-bent in its efforts to destroy every living tree.  Each year in WY when the FS starts &#8220;controlled burns&#8221; and they inevitably evolve into uncontrolled burns, they place signs along the highway which read WILDLAND FIRE USE and urge the public not to report the blaze they&#8217;ve started.  They have systematically incinerated many of the high white bark pine areas they advertise they are trying to protect.  A great many of the pristine areas in the Gros Ventres, Wyoming and Wind River ranges have been actively destroyed by the FS.  I&#8217;m beginning to think their slogan must be &#8220;The Only Good Tree is a Dead Tree.&#8221;</p>
<p><strong>Reply:</strong> The FS&#8217;s slogan is (no satire) &#8220;Reintroduce Fire&#8221;.  They do so aggressively and without regard for the law (i.e. criminally).  The US Forest Service has become a bellicose occupation army inflicting disaster across the West.  It is time (past time) to zero out that agency and give the land back to the residents.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The New USFS Planning Rule Is a Pack of Lies by Blake D.</title>
		<link>http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2012/03/28/the-new-usfs-planning-rule-is-a-pack-of-lies/#comment-8765</link>
		<dc:creator>Blake D.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Apr 2012 18:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westinstenv.org/sosf/?p=3161#comment-8765</guid>
		<description>Oregon has lost it roads to the USFS and our freedoms also here in the USA.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oregon has lost it roads to the USFS and our freedoms also here in the USA.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Jaramillo Subchron and the Domestication of Fire by bear bait</title>
		<link>http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2012/04/07/the-jaramillo-subchron-and-the-domestication-of-fire/#comment-8752</link>
		<dc:creator>bear bait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 08 Apr 2012 16:02:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westinstenv.org/sosf/?p=3176#comment-8752</guid>
		<description>We all become personally acquainted with our immediate environment, and go about ordering it to fit our particular needs. I would suppose that tendency is genetic/instinctive. We have been programmed by mutation and selection over the ages to hone that skill and purpose.  

Of course fire is our domain. You don't see any other critters packing matches or a zippo. We find all the time that other creatures use tools of one sort or another. Recently it was the bear using a rock to accomplish dermal abrasion to remove the detritus of hibernation. But not fire. That tool is ours alone.

The whole essence of survival is being able to either control or follow the environment that nourishes and promotes reproduction and long life.  Fire is most important to our species. It allowed us to manage the environment, change the nutritional components of "food", forge metals into tools, and protect our lives from wildfire, enemies, and diseases. 

Of course we have used fire since we evolved. Yes it has been the most useful of our tools/skills.  Apparently modern man has lost a lot of empirical knowledge of how fire is/was used in the past. The push to regain that knowledge and skill has been placed on Federal land managers, who seemingly can't manage much other than self survival and cashing a paycheck. Academics are marginally better, if at all, as it appears they protect their livelihoods sort of like musk ox protect their young: circle up with all the weapons pointed out from their enclave of  cloistered safety.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We all become personally acquainted with our immediate environment, and go about ordering it to fit our particular needs. I would suppose that tendency is genetic/instinctive. We have been programmed by mutation and selection over the ages to hone that skill and purpose.  </p>
<p>Of course fire is our domain. You don&#8217;t see any other critters packing matches or a zippo. We find all the time that other creatures use tools of one sort or another. Recently it was the bear using a rock to accomplish dermal abrasion to remove the detritus of hibernation. But not fire. That tool is ours alone.</p>
<p>The whole essence of survival is being able to either control or follow the environment that nourishes and promotes reproduction and long life.  Fire is most important to our species. It allowed us to manage the environment, change the nutritional components of &#8220;food&#8221;, forge metals into tools, and protect our lives from wildfire, enemies, and diseases. </p>
<p>Of course we have used fire since we evolved. Yes it has been the most useful of our tools/skills.  Apparently modern man has lost a lot of empirical knowledge of how fire is/was used in the past. The push to regain that knowledge and skill has been placed on Federal land managers, who seemingly can&#8217;t manage much other than self survival and cashing a paycheck. Academics are marginally better, if at all, as it appears they protect their livelihoods sort of like musk ox protect their young: circle up with all the weapons pointed out from their enclave of  cloistered safety.</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Devolutionary Idea: Give Oregon Counties Our Public Forests by bear bait</title>
		<link>http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2012/04/03/a-devolutionary-idea-give-oregon-counties-our-public-forests/#comment-8739</link>
		<dc:creator>bear bait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Apr 2012 14:28:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westinstenv.org/sosf/?p=3163#comment-8739</guid>
		<description>Voting makes a difference,  except in Oregon.  Here,  it it how Multnomah county votes for that decides elections.  The rest of Oregon is a fiefdom.  We need a State government that has one state senator per county.  The Senate we have is based on a population count,  not a land area and commonality.  And,  every decade the Sec of State gets to gerrymander the Senate Districts to reflect his party's power and influence.  Whatever kind of constitutional change that might require is needed.  It would equalize the power of land area with the power of the population centers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Voting makes a difference,  except in Oregon.  Here,  it it how Multnomah county votes for that decides elections.  The rest of Oregon is a fiefdom.  We need a State government that has one state senator per county.  The Senate we have is based on a population count,  not a land area and commonality.  And,  every decade the Sec of State gets to gerrymander the Senate Districts to reflect his party&#8217;s power and influence.  Whatever kind of constitutional change that might require is needed.  It would equalize the power of land area with the power of the population centers.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ron Wyden: Nomex Ninny of the Year by Mike</title>
		<link>http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2012/03/28/ron-wyden-nomex-ninny-of-the-year/#comment-8723</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Mar 2012 00:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westinstenv.org/sosf/?p=3159#comment-8723</guid>
		<description>Let's be crystal clear about this.

Ron Wyden wants America's forests to burn. That's why he supported the ban on fire retardant. That's why he supports firebombing old-growth.

His little dropping in the Oregonian is a feint, a mis-direction, to plant the false impression that he is somehow concerned about the deliberate destruction of our forests by catastrophic fire.

Don't be fooled by the snakiest deceiver in the US Senate. He favors forest incineration. Always has, and he has not changed his stripes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s be crystal clear about this.</p>
<p>Ron Wyden wants America&#8217;s forests to burn. That&#8217;s why he supported the ban on fire retardant. That&#8217;s why he supports firebombing old-growth.</p>
<p>His little dropping in the Oregonian is a feint, a mis-direction, to plant the false impression that he is somehow concerned about the deliberate destruction of our forests by catastrophic fire.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be fooled by the snakiest deceiver in the US Senate. He favors forest incineration. Always has, and he has not changed his stripes.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Ron Wyden: Nomex Ninny of the Year by Foo Furb</title>
		<link>http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2012/03/28/ron-wyden-nomex-ninny-of-the-year/#comment-8722</link>
		<dc:creator>Foo Furb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Mar 2012 19:04:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westinstenv.org/sosf/?p=3159#comment-8722</guid>
		<description>You can tell it's a government operation -- no stagged trousers, no suspenders, and everyone is posing with the exact same brand of (foreign built) chain saw with exactly the same length bars on them.

The wooden lectern ("forest products") is the obvious give-away of course.

Congratulations, Ron!  Another great award to display at the bookstore!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can tell it&#8217;s a government operation &#8212; no stagged trousers, no suspenders, and everyone is posing with the exact same brand of (foreign built) chain saw with exactly the same length bars on them.</p>
<p>The wooden lectern (&#8221;forest products&#8221;) is the obvious give-away of course.</p>
<p>Congratulations, Ron!  Another great award to display at the bookstore!</p>
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		<title>Comment on A Voice for Local Government in Our National Forests by bear bait</title>
		<link>http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2012/03/21/a-voice-for-local-government-in-our-national-forests/#comment-8699</link>
		<dc:creator>bear bait</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Mar 2012 16:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westinstenv.org/sosf/?p=3141#comment-8699</guid>
		<description>If you don't forward this to your local legislative and congressional representation, with the admonishment that their political futures are on the line with this planned takeover of America and our submission as a viable economy and population to that of a slave state to World Government, the path to the Caliphate dreamed of by the oil sheiks of the Middle East, and the emerging manufacturing and idea economies of Asia.  This is national suicide in a nutshell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you don&#8217;t forward this to your local legislative and congressional representation, with the admonishment that their political futures are on the line with this planned takeover of America and our submission as a viable economy and population to that of a slave state to World Government, the path to the Caliphate dreamed of by the oil sheiks of the Middle East, and the emerging manufacturing and idea economies of Asia.  This is national suicide in a nutshell.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Muddying the Waters in SW Oregon by mark d.</title>
		<link>http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2011/04/20/muddying-the-waters-in-sw-oregon/#comment-8551</link>
		<dc:creator>mark d.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Feb 2012 11:58:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westinstenv.org/sosf/?p=3069#comment-8551</guid>
		<description>I've dredged a few times in my life and seen the aftermath of fry and trout that were not bothered by the act of dredging. In fact, I had to keep shooing the fish away from the nozzle as they darted in and out of the hole -- grabbing insects, worms and leeches, with a occasional trip through the nozzle and out through the sluice. Never seemed to bother them at all, or me, as the gold, lead and mercury that I took home with me was handled properly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve dredged a few times in my life and seen the aftermath of fry and trout that were not bothered by the act of dredging. In fact, I had to keep shooing the fish away from the nozzle as they darted in and out of the hole &#8212; grabbing insects, worms and leeches, with a occasional trip through the nozzle and out through the sluice. Never seemed to bother them at all, or me, as the gold, lead and mercury that I took home with me was handled properly.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Firebombed Old-Growth Forest Photos by Larry H.</title>
		<link>http://westinstenv.org/sosf/2011/10/25/firebombed-old-growth-forest-photos/#comment-8230</link>
		<dc:creator>Larry H.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Nov 2011 17:28:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://westinstenv.org/sosf/?p=3133#comment-8230</guid>
		<description>Looks like it burned just hot enough to kill almost everything but, not hot enough to reduce any fuels. Wasn't the original decision to fire off those 6,000 acres to "take fuels away from the fire"?? It appears that they have just set themselves up for another incident that will take another napalming. Before the fire, they were saying that area "needed to burn" but, now that it has burned, why do we have a worse problem, now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like it burned just hot enough to kill almost everything but, not hot enough to reduce any fuels. Wasn&#8217;t the original decision to fire off those 6,000 acres to &#8220;take fuels away from the fire&#8221;?? It appears that they have just set themselves up for another incident that will take another napalming. Before the fire, they were saying that area &#8220;needed to burn&#8221; but, now that it has burned, why do we have a worse problem, now?</p>
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